trying to build a large route
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casanova419
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 07 Nov 2013 19:11
trying to build a large route
OK first i get the dem ready then i use a large route file to trace the route that i want. After i trace the first part of the route I then use mts open street map to get the tiles. I save the route. Then i export to trainz to check it. When i zoom out i see the map overlay and when i zoom in i see the map overlay in detail. Now i go back and open the first raster map then i open the big route to trace the second route. I get mts tiles . Now i have the first raster and second raster map showing showing as one. I export to trainz. When i open in trainz the map overlay shows up but when i zoom in for detail there's no map overlay showing up at all. What I'm i doing wrong? What are the steps to make this work? Can someone explain as simple as possible what is the procedure to acomplishe this? Im trying to make a route of the Gary Indiana and Chicago area. There's a lot of railroad lines in that area and to try to trace a route for it in one shot is too much for transdem. thanx for all replies.
Re: trying to build a large route
Which copy of the route are you working with?
The UTM tile concept has two aspects:
So, basically, UTM tiles are like all other scenery objects in Trainz. The major difference is, the assets themselves are created automatically and references to them are placed and positioned automatically, too.
Now, TransDEM generates the initial instance of the Trainz route. You then import that instance into Trainz, using Trainz Content Manager. This import makes a new copy of the route. The new copy becomes an entry in the Trainz internal database. When you open Surveyor on this route, you will work with that internal database.
The original instance of he route will remain unaffected.
Now, you want to add UTM tiles to that existing route. You know, you need the new tiles and also the existing route to add the references. Since the working copy of your existing route is the one in the Trainz database now, not the one originally created by TransDEM, you will have to temporarily open that route for external editing, a function of Content Manager. But here is the pitfall. Trainz Content Manager scans the destination directory before exporting any route for editing. If it finds a route with the same name already there, it does not protest or acquire reassurance, instead it silently renames the exported copy to something cryptic and you would never guess that this is actually the route you want to add the new tiles to.
So, before opening any route for edit in Trainz Content Manager, make sure no other route with the same name exists in the destination folder. Unless you have moved or deleted it manually, the original TransDEM creation will still be there. And you will erroneously add your new tiles to the original TransDEM creation. But when you commit changes in Trainz Content Manager, CM will look at its cryptically named temporary export, and reimport that one, with no changes at all, of course, because you never touched that copy with TransDEM.
Therefore: Before opening a route for editing in Trainz Content Manager, move, delete or rename any route with the same name in the destination folder.
The UTM tile concept has two aspects:
- The tile itself. This is the Trainz scenery object with its surface texture, and, in the 3D case, a terra-formed corpus.
- A reference to the tile in the actual Trainz route. That is the anchor point in the route's .obs file. It declares where the tile is positioned, how it's orientated, and what the relative height should be. And, of course, this anchor point also contains the KUID of the tile in question.
So, basically, UTM tiles are like all other scenery objects in Trainz. The major difference is, the assets themselves are created automatically and references to them are placed and positioned automatically, too.
Now, TransDEM generates the initial instance of the Trainz route. You then import that instance into Trainz, using Trainz Content Manager. This import makes a new copy of the route. The new copy becomes an entry in the Trainz internal database. When you open Surveyor on this route, you will work with that internal database.
The original instance of he route will remain unaffected.
Now, you want to add UTM tiles to that existing route. You know, you need the new tiles and also the existing route to add the references. Since the working copy of your existing route is the one in the Trainz database now, not the one originally created by TransDEM, you will have to temporarily open that route for external editing, a function of Content Manager. But here is the pitfall. Trainz Content Manager scans the destination directory before exporting any route for editing. If it finds a route with the same name already there, it does not protest or acquire reassurance, instead it silently renames the exported copy to something cryptic and you would never guess that this is actually the route you want to add the new tiles to.
So, before opening any route for edit in Trainz Content Manager, make sure no other route with the same name exists in the destination folder. Unless you have moved or deleted it manually, the original TransDEM creation will still be there. And you will erroneously add your new tiles to the original TransDEM creation. But when you commit changes in Trainz Content Manager, CM will look at its cryptically named temporary export, and reimport that one, with no changes at all, of course, because you never touched that copy with TransDEM.
Therefore: Before opening a route for editing in Trainz Content Manager, move, delete or rename any route with the same name in the destination folder.
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casanova419
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 07 Nov 2013 19:11
Re: trying to build a large route
Ok let me get this straight. i create a route then i export the route to trainz. let's call it 1.iI got o trainz to see the route and every is fine. Now i got back to transdem open up the georef raster map for the original route and add more utm tiles to the map. Then i create utm objects and make sure the name is the same as the route which is 1. Then i go into trainz open route 1 for edit and import the addition utm tiles to the route then commit the route. Is this correct? Or I'm iI missing a step.
Another question on the setting for trainz custome folder do it have to point to trainz editing folder or can i just point to another folder outside of trainz? Sorry for not understanding your instructions fully I take medication for my back injury and it makes it hard to understand it. Possible you can give me and example on the procedure how to add utm to an exiting route from beginning to end tnx.
Another question on the setting for trainz custome folder do it have to point to trainz editing folder or can i just point to another folder outside of trainz? Sorry for not understanding your instructions fully I take medication for my back injury and it makes it hard to understand it. Possible you can give me and example on the procedure how to add utm to an exiting route from beginning to end tnx.
Re: trying to build a large route
Not quite, but we are getting there...casanova419 wrote:Ok let me get this straight. i create a route then i export the route to trainz. let's call it 1.iI got o trainz to see the route and every is fine. Now i got back to transdem open up the georef raster map for the original route and add more utm tiles to the map. Then i create utm objects and make sure the name is the same as the route which is 1. Then i go into trainz open route 1 for edit and import the addition utm tiles to the route then commit the route. Is this correct? Or I'm iI missing a step.
You run the TransDEM exporter and generate Trainz route copy #1. Then you run Trainz Content Manager and import this copy into Trainz, hereby creating copy #2 in the Trainz asset data base. You open Surveyor and look at copy #2.
You decide the result looks fine so far and run TransDEM again to add more tiles. However, if you do this as you described it, you are adding these tiles to copy #1, not #2. So, copy #1 gets modified, #2 in the Trainz data base remains unchanged. Even if you add the new tiles to the Trainz data base with Trainz Content Manager, copy #2, as being unchanged, does not know about the new tiles.
In this case, if you haven't made any changes to route copy #2 in Surveyor, you may decide to discard route copy #2. You can delete it in Content Manager and import the route again, from copy #1. This will create a new copy of the route, let's call it #3, in the Trainz Asset data base. And copy #3 will reflect the the changes you made in TransDEM to #1.
The other way round is more complicated. In case you already made modifications in Surveyor you want to preserve, you will have to open your route for edit in Content Manager. That is, your current copy #2, within the Trainz data base, has been modified, due to your work in Surveyor. If you want to add UTM tiles you the current state of your route, you need to temporarily export #2. You open the route for edit (Trainz Content Manager function). This creates a new, temporary copy in the destination directory. Let's call it #4, since we already used #3. If you did not rename, move or delete any folders and files before opening for edit, the destination folder will then contain copy #1 under the original name and copy #4, under a cryptic name (because Content Manager has a flaw here). If you run TransDEM now and UTM tiles, without being aware of the new cryptically named route copy #4. you would still add these tiles to copy #1, because that's the one with the recognizable name, you will most probably pick as destination. After that you do a commit in Content Manager. But Content Manager has remembered the cryptic name of #4 and re-import this copy #4, creating copy #5 in the Trainz asset data base and automatically deleting previous copy #2 there. But #4, unfortunately, has not been touched by TransDEM. You added the tiles to #1.
That means, you can either add tiles to #1 (TransDEM) and delete copy #2 and import #1 again (Content Manager). Or, if you want to preserve the route, move/delete/rename copy #1 (Windows Explorer), open the route for edit (Content Manager), creating #4 (which should have the original name). Add tiles to #4 (TransDEM), and commit the changes (Content manager), hereby creating copy #5 and replacing #2 in the Trainz data base, and automatically also delete temporary copy #4.
Summary:
#1: Original TransDEM creation, original name, in the common destination folder, usually ...\user\edit, subject to unintended modifications by additional UTM tile generation in TransDEM.
#2: Copy of #1, in the Trainz data base, subject to modifications by Surveyor.
#3: Possible new copy of #1, in the Trainz data base, overriding any changes previously made in Surveyor, but reflecting changes made by TransDEM.
#4: Temporary copy of #2, in the common destination folder. Will have a cryptic name unless #1 has been renamed/moved/deleted. #4 should be the target for new tiles with TransDEM.
#5: Reimported #4, new copy in the Trainz data base, automatically replacing #2.
Theoretically you can select any folder as the destination folder in TransDEM and you can also import from any folder in Trainz Content Manager. But open for edit in Trainz Content Manager will always export to ...\user\edit. In my opinion it causes fewer problems, if you set the TransDEM Trainz folder to the ...\user\edit folder defined by the Trainz installation, and manually remove any previous route copies before starting an "Open for edit" operation.Another question on the setting for trainz custome folder do it have to point to trainz editing folder or can i just point to another folder outside of trainz?
I hope the 1 - 5 numbering of the route copies makes it clearer.Sorry for not understanding your instructions fully I take medication for my back injury and it makes it hard to understand it. Possible you can give me and example on the procedure how to add utm to an exiting route from beginning to end tnx.
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casanova419
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 07 Nov 2013 19:11
Re: trying to build a large route
OK I created a new route then when i export the utm tiles to the destination folder scenery I get the limitation applies msg on top. The reason I'm asking is when I i import to trainz and open the route on surveyor i see the map zoom out but when i zoom in in most of the maps the tiles don't show up. Is the reason why lots of utm tiles don't show up when you zoom in the route because of the limitation applies msg?
Re: trying to build a large route
If you create UTM tiles in TransDEM without a vector path, the limit will be very low, about 25 I think. The intention is that you would only want to do this for small areas, to fill in gaps. The standard way is to create UTM tile along vector lines. Then the limit is close to 1000 tiles. It's still limited, to keep the internal cache manageable. (As 3D tiles, even on a fast machine, generating 1000 pieces will take some time.) After that, you can try to set a new export mask and export again, to the same route. TransDEM will skip any tiles created and assigned previously.
As long as you do not import into Trainz in between with Trainz Content Manager, you need not worry route copies.
As long as you do not import into Trainz in between with Trainz Content Manager, you need not worry route copies.
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casanova419
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 07 Nov 2013 19:11
Re: trying to build a large route
I understand the beginning but on this paragraph I'm lost right after you open route for edit from #2 To #4 and number 4 shows up in the editing folder of trainz. Just a suggestion If you can make a tutorial for how to add utm tiles on a route already in trainz. PS I try to change the custom export folder to C:\Program Files (x86)\N3V Games\TS12\UserData\editing when i try to export the dem elevation and ground texture i get the error writing file "[map files export]"The other way round is more complicated. In case you already made modifications in Surveyor you want to preserve, you will have to open your route for edit in Content Manager. That is, your current copy #2, within the Trainz data base, has been modified, due to your work in Surveyor. If you want to add UTM tiles you the current state of your route, you need to temporarily export #2. You open the route for edit (Trainz Content Manager function). This creates a new, temporary copy in the destination directory. Let's call it #4, since we already used #3. If you did not rename, move or delete any folders and files before opening for edit, the destination folder will then contain copy #1 under the original name and copy #4, under a cryptic name (because Content Manager has a flaw here). If you run TransDEM now and UTM tiles, without being aware of the new cryptically named route copy #4. you would still add these tiles to copy #1, because that's the one with the recognizable name, you will most probably pick as destination. After that you do a commit in Content Manager. But Content Manager has remembered the cryptic name of #4 and re-import this copy #4, creating copy #5 in the Trainz asset data base and automatically deleting previous copy #2 there. But #4, unfortunately, has not been touched by TransDEM. You added the tiles to #1.
error creating folder C:\Program Files (x86)\N3V Games\TS12\UserData\editing\new route:5
error creating directory C:\Program Files (x86)\N3V Games\TS12\UserData\editing\newe route .
Last edited by casanova419 on 09 Jan 2015 06:35, edited 1 time in total.
Re: trying to build a large route
G'day casanova419,
..I knew this was going to get complicated. Despite the excellent explanation for the cause of your woes, from geophil, his 'Teutonic' "preciseness" (if that's even a word) has, as I suspected it might, confused the issue...
...I solved the problem 'early' in my "TransDEM career" by simply getting into the habit of making sure that if I opened a route (or any other asset, for that matter) for editing using the Windows Explorer in Content Manager, to physically "close " said open window BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE (once the editing was completed, of course). That way, I ensured that if the route needed to be opened again, Content Manager would ALWAYS open it, on any subsequent occasions, using the name of the asset, rather than it's own "cryptic" naming convention. It also helps to occasionally 'check' the %Trainz%/User/Edit folder and manually remove any 'empty' folders that have been 'left behind' from previous editing (noting in the process, that any that aren't 'empty' is indicative of the asset NOT having been committed after that editing). If you get into this habit, you will NOT suffer from the problem that Roland is trying to have you avoid...
Jerker {:)}
..I knew this was going to get complicated. Despite the excellent explanation for the cause of your woes, from geophil, his 'Teutonic' "preciseness" (if that's even a word) has, as I suspected it might, confused the issue...
...I solved the problem 'early' in my "TransDEM career" by simply getting into the habit of making sure that if I opened a route (or any other asset, for that matter) for editing using the Windows Explorer in Content Manager, to physically "close " said open window BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE (once the editing was completed, of course). That way, I ensured that if the route needed to be opened again, Content Manager would ALWAYS open it, on any subsequent occasions, using the name of the asset, rather than it's own "cryptic" naming convention. It also helps to occasionally 'check' the %Trainz%/User/Edit folder and manually remove any 'empty' folders that have been 'left behind' from previous editing (noting in the process, that any that aren't 'empty' is indicative of the asset NOT having been committed after that editing). If you get into this habit, you will NOT suffer from the problem that Roland is trying to have you avoid...
Jerker {:)}
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casanova419
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 07 Nov 2013 19:11
Re: trying to build a large route
Hi jerker
You where not kidding about the confusing part LoL. I think the part that's getting to me is the destination folder. Which one is consider the destination folder. The one i have set up on the export is F:\New folder\scenery. I think if i have some screen shots of what I'm looking at that will help just like the tutorial on how to create your first route.
You where not kidding about the confusing part LoL. I think the part that's getting to me is the destination folder. Which one is consider the destination folder. The one i have set up on the export is F:\New folder\scenery. I think if i have some screen shots of what I'm looking at that will help just like the tutorial on how to create your first route.
Re: trying to build a large route
G'day casanova419,
...the folder to which you export your routes FROM TransDEM is irrelevant to the current discussion. Like many others, I utilise the existing %Trainz&/User?Local folder for my TransDEM exports but that folder could be located anywhere in your "system", this makes NO difference to either Trainz or TransDEM. The so-called 'destination' folder to which Roland is referring is the folder that is opened by Trainz when you 'open an asset for editing' (using that option from the "right-click" menu). This folder is ALWAYS created anew, each time an asset is "opened for edit", in the %Trainz%/User/Edit folder. If a folder already exists in that location with the same name as your 'asset' (read 'route'), then Trainz will create a NEW 'temporary' folder to 'store' it, using the "cryptic" naming convention already mentioned, it will then use this folder (and this folder only) for ALL editing made to the asset. TransDEM, on the other hand, when it opens a route in Trainz, to add additional, newly created UTM tiles, for example, will 'ask' Trainz to 'open the route for editing', using the known name of the route. The problem arises IF there is already a folder in the %Trainz%/User/Edit folder using that name; Trainz will, as we have already explained, open the route (and work to and from it) in a NEW folder of it's own naming (using that "cryptic" naming convention). YOU have to prevent this and ONLY YOU can do that, by following the instructions provided by Roland, above...
...now, I reckon that I've only added to the confusion, despite German being my 'second language'
...
Jerker {:)}
...the folder to which you export your routes FROM TransDEM is irrelevant to the current discussion. Like many others, I utilise the existing %Trainz&/User?Local folder for my TransDEM exports but that folder could be located anywhere in your "system", this makes NO difference to either Trainz or TransDEM. The so-called 'destination' folder to which Roland is referring is the folder that is opened by Trainz when you 'open an asset for editing' (using that option from the "right-click" menu). This folder is ALWAYS created anew, each time an asset is "opened for edit", in the %Trainz%/User/Edit folder. If a folder already exists in that location with the same name as your 'asset' (read 'route'), then Trainz will create a NEW 'temporary' folder to 'store' it, using the "cryptic" naming convention already mentioned, it will then use this folder (and this folder only) for ALL editing made to the asset. TransDEM, on the other hand, when it opens a route in Trainz, to add additional, newly created UTM tiles, for example, will 'ask' Trainz to 'open the route for editing', using the known name of the route. The problem arises IF there is already a folder in the %Trainz%/User/Edit folder using that name; Trainz will, as we have already explained, open the route (and work to and from it) in a NEW folder of it's own naming (using that "cryptic" naming convention). YOU have to prevent this and ONLY YOU can do that, by following the instructions provided by Roland, above...
...now, I reckon that I've only added to the confusion, despite German being my 'second language'
...Jerker {:)}