Unable to create 3-D UTM tiles

[fw2012]

Hi;
I just installed TransDem 2.5 x64.
I have a route with DEM, route, and Raster maps loaded.
I create the route with ground textures from Raster maps. This works fine, as it always has.
But when I attempt to create and export 3-D UTM tiles, I have trouble.
I am able to create and export most of the UTM tiles. There is a warning upon completion that some of the UTM tiles could not be created due to missing raster images. This is understandable, as not all of the selected route (using rectangular mask) have raster images loaded in TransDem.
When I import UTM tiles into TS12+SP1 CM 3.7, all except one tile import properly. One of the tiles is faulty though, and most of the files are missing from its folder when I open for edit.
OK. I ignore this fault for the moment. Start Trainz, go into Surveyor and load my map.
The map shows the ground textures fine. But now I attempt to load what I thought were my 3-D UTM tiles, and all I get are flat (2-D) tiles, which do not align to their proper locations.
Some times place directly on top of or under each other. It's a mess! And nothing is 3D.

So back in Transdem, I re-check that my World Origin is valid. It is.
Here are screen shots of the setup for creating and exporting 3D UTM tiles from TransDem 2.5 x64.



This is the map I am creating the UTM tiles from. The lighter areas along the route are the raster images, taken from Google Earth at an eye alt of 5Km and GeoReferenced in TransDem



This is the settings for my UTM tile export

So, what am I missing here?

Thanks for your help

Frank

[geophil]

Two possible reasons I can think of.

One: The route you are adding the tiles to is not the same you are inspecting in Surveyor, see my post the Auran forum, lab/preview thread.

Two: KUID mess-up. Trainz identifies objects by KUID, not by name. If UTM tile KUIDs have been in use before, but for a different location, and the old tiles have not been overwritten in the Trainz asset data base, you will see the old tiles at the wrong position. And the old tiles were 2D, of course.

Try the new tiles on a very small area of your route, just one or two UTM tiles. Check the contents of those one or two tile objects in Content Manager, name, KUID, thumbnail, texture.

[fw2012]

Thanks Phil;
I'll check that out. I had forgotten from way back when I used to work with UTM files that the KUID's might get mixed up.
Is there any way I can tell by looking at the UTM tiles open for edit in CM 3.7 whether they're 2D or 3D?
Will my raster maps from Google Earth work with 3D tiles, or do I have to use another source for these images?
I have read about the copyright issues with Google, but so far am not planning to upload the route I am playing with.

Frank

Edit: How do I turn on the thin wireframe grid?
I have it installed in TS12, but never see it, except very briefly while switching between wireframe and normal view.
I keep getting the feeling that something is missing/wrong with my TS12 installation, although I can't figure what.

[geophil]

Is there any way I can tell by looking at the UTM tiles open for edit in CM 3.7 whether they're 2D or 3D?

2D tiles do not have the "corpus.tga" texture and .im files are only 2kB.

Will my raster maps from Google Earth work with 3D tiles, or do I have to use another source for these images?

TransDEM creates the tile textures without even knowing at this stage whether they will be used for 2D or 3D tiles. Therefore no difference here.

Edit: How do I turn on the thin wireframe grid?

It's a custom replacement texture, see the "Additional Installations" chapter in the TransDEM Trainz manual or here: Trainz Wireframe Texture Replacement.

[fw2012]

Is there any way I can tell by looking at the UTM tiles open for edit in CM 3.7 whether they're 2D or 3D?

2D tiles do not have the "corpus.tga" texture and .im files are only 2kB.

Will my raster maps from Google Earth work with 3D tiles, or do I have to use another source for these images?

TransDEM creates the tile textures without even knowing at this stage whether they will be used for 2D or 3D tiles. Therefore no difference here.

Edit: How do I turn on the thin wireframe grid?

It's a custom replacement texture, see the "Additional Installations" chapter in the TransDEM Trainz manual or here: Trainz Wireframe Texture Replacement.

Is this the thin wireframe?
When I place the UTM tiles, I assume I simply select them from the scenery objects, and no matter where on the map my cursor is, the UTM should be automatically placed in the correct location?
I seem to recall that I have been having this trouble with UTM's for a long time - since TS12 first came out.
So far, I have not been able to get 3D UTM's to show up, but the correct files are in the folders when I open for Edit.
I'm sure I will figure this out - I just need to spend some time playing with it - on a small route that doesn't take long to load or save.




Frank

[geophil]

Is this the thin wireframe?

Yes, that's the thin wireframe.

When I place the UTM tiles, I assume I simply select them from the scenery objects, and no matter where on the map my cursor is, the UTM should be automatically placed in the correct location?

No, that's not the way it works.

All UTM tiles, 2D or 3D, are just ordinary Trainz object assets, like a tree or a building. Trainz knows nothing about the uniqueness of a UTM tile. You could place them anywhere you want and you can place several copies of each as well. Surveyor won't stop you.

What you actually do when placing objects is to add a reference to the object KUID into your route .obs file, together with the coordinates of the position where you click on the ground in Surveyor. Each such reference is called an instance of the object.

In this case, however you are not supposed to do this by hand in Surveyor, but leave the job to TransDEM. TransDEM can map Trainz' internal coordinates to UTM coordinates (with the help of the world origin object). TransDEM knows, where to put that particular UTM tile. And you really wouldn't want to handle hundreds of these objects manually.

So, UTM tile export in TransDEM is twofold. The tiles themselves must be generated, in the 3D case more or less from scratch, in the 2D case by cloning the template object. But in the second step, each tile also gets placed, the object reference is added. For this, TransDEM needs access to the route. It modifies the .obs file, quite similar to what you do when placing objects manually in Surveyor. But because of the Trainz asset data base, active Trainz content is invisible to external tools. That's why you need top open your route for edit in Trainz Content Manager. This is the only way, TransDEM can manipulate an existing route. And here we have that pitfall. The export/import folder is usually shared between TransDEM and Trainz Content Manager. Before opening any route for edit, make sure no left-overs of that same route reside in this folder.

Best thing to try 3D UTM tiles is to rebuilt the Muengsten tutorial route from scratch, cleaning every trace of it in Content Manager first.

[fw2012]

Is this the thin wireframe?

Yes, that's the thin wireframe.

When I place the UTM tiles, I assume I simply select them from the scenery objects, and no matter where on the map my cursor is, the UTM should be automatically placed in the correct location?

No, that's not the way it works.

All UTM tiles, 2D or 3D, are just ordinary Trainz object assets, like a tree or a building. Trainz knows nothing about the uniqueness of a UTM tile. You could place them anywhere you want and you can place several copies of each as well. Surveyor won't stop you.

What you actually do when placing objects is to add a reference to the object KUID into your route .obs file, together with the coordinates of the position where you click on the ground in Surveyor. Each such reference is called an instance of the object.

In this case, however you are not supposed to do this by hand in Surveyor, but leave the job to TransDEM. TransDEM can map Trainz' internal coordinates to UTM coordinates (with the help of the world origin object). TransDEM knows, where to put that particular UTM tile. And you really wouldn't want to handle hundreds of these objects manually.

So, UTM tile export in TransDEM is twofold. The tiles themselves must be generated, in the 3D case more or less from scratch, in the 2D case by cloning the template object. But in the second step, each tile also gets placed, the object reference is added. For this, TransDEM needs access to the route. It modifies the .obs file, quite similar to what you do when placing objects manually in Surveyor. But because of the Trainz asset data base, active Trainz content is invisible to external tools. That's why you need top open your route for edit in Trainz Content Manager. This is the only way, TransDEM can manipulate an existing route. And here we have that pitfall. The export/import folder is usually shared between TransDEM and Trainz Content Manager. Before opening any route for edit, make sure no left-overs of that same route reside in this folder.

Best thing to try 3D UTM tiles is to rebuilt the Muengsten tutorial route from scratch, cleaning every trace of it in Content Manager first.

Thanks Phil; You've been so helpful to me. I am grateful!
I am going to take your advice and work with the Muengsten tutorial. It should be a lot of fun, as well as educational.

Frank

Edit: Success! Completed the Muengsten tutorial using 3D UTM and am very happy to report that I've finally got it. My mistake was mainly that I had placed the TrainzMeshImporter.exe in the wrong folder, and set the "Trainz Mesh XML Importer (3D UTM Tiles)" to that folder, which was not the Ziegler Tools\UTM03 folder. I had placed the importer in the N3V\TS12\Extras folder.
I did not understand that for TransDem to create the 3D UTM tiles, it needed the TrainzMeshImporter.exe file to be in the same folder (UTM03) as the UTM03 object.
So now that I've got the hang of it, I am going to go see if I can make it work on a larger scale, with my Eastern Pennsylvania (Reading) area map.

[fw2012]

Guess I overloaded TransDem or Trainz, TS12+SP1. I tried to create 98 3D UTM tiles for a huge route. There were no errors, except warnings that some of the UTM tiles had no raster files.
When I installed the route and UTM tiles, they never appeared on the route in Surveyor.
I believe you said in the TransDem 2.5 notes that some of the limitations on UTM tiles still exists even in the x64 version.
So I'm just going to create some low altitude raster images and create UTM's from them only for areas where I really need them. Otherwise, I will continue to use painted ground textures from 5Km raster images.

Frank

[geophil]

My mistake was mainly that I had placed the TrainzMeshImporter.exe in the wrong folder, and set the "Trainz Mesh XML Importer (3D UTM Tiles)" to that folder, which was not the Ziegler Tools\UTM03 folder. I had placed the importer in the N3V\TS12\Extras folder.

The folder for the Mesh Importer can be different to the one with the UTM03 files. TransDEM will always check the path for the importer. It verifies the exe is there and it will also run the exe with basic command line arguments and check the output. There can and normally will be two different paths for UTM03 and the mesh importer.

Guess I overloaded TransDem or Trainz, TS12+SP1. I tried to create 98 3D UTM tiles for a huge route. There were no errors, except warnings that some of the UTM tiles had no raster files.

With the route filter active, the limit is close to 1000 tiles per export task, if I remember correctly. So, 100 shouldn't be a problem. By little Bonneville Dam example has 280 tiles, 500m size.

When I installed the route and UTM tiles, they never appeared on the route in Surveyor.

Again this looks like the wrong route for the tiles. Open the route in Surveyor. Make a minimum adjustment and save the route. This will recreate the config.txt file and update the dependency list. In Content Manager view the dependencies or check the new config file. Any of the UTM tiles listed there?

[PFX72]

I'm also having an issue exporting UTM 3D objects.

I've got the DEM and textures into Trainz with no issue but I get the following error when I try and create the UTM tiles. I've got a fairly high res ortho images along the entire route. I'd imagine I'm doing something really stupid that is causing this.